May 16, 2007
We Forgive Peter Bjorn And John, But Neumos Can Suck It
Fucking Neumos. Every time we go to a show there, we swear it's the last. Then some amazing band comes to town -- to Neumos -- and we think, Maybe it won't be so bad this time, but then it is bad and not just bad, but worse than the last time. And so it is that whenever we see the N-word on the calendar next to a band we love, our lungs heave a heavy sigh, followed by a guttural and unearthly sound that can only be described as part groan and part, "Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuck."
To be sure, what little we saw of Peter Bjorn and John's Sunday night performance was truly exceptional. For a three-piece, their live sound was huge and representative of their recorded work. They were energetic, charming and seemed genuinely pleased with their Seattle reception. We wish we could have stayed for more than four songs.
So what happened Sunday night that ruffled our feathers so? Having tickets for the late show (the doors for which were scheduled to open at 8pm according to the Neumos website), we showed up around 8:30, only to find out that their first set -- the "early" show -- hadn't ended and they'd open the doors for the second show at 9:00. Fine. We left, went to the Satellite for a beer, came back, got in line. Once inside (after 10:00) we waited another hour before opening band Fujiya & Miyagi began around 11:00. PB&J finally took the stage around midnight. We're fully aware of the fact that there's going to be some waiting involved. We know when we go to the Showbox at 8pm, we'll be waiting until 9:30 for the band to start. They've got drinks to sell after all. We get that. But this was beyond ridiculous.
To review: Neumos website says doors at 8pm, PB&J actually perform over four hours later.
In all fairness, we can't claim to know who's really to blame here -- whether it was Neumos or Peter Bjorn and John. For all we know, it's completely the band's fault. They did, after all, play a live set for KEXP at the Triple door, ending at 5pm. Why they thought they could seamlessly be ready to play at another venue an hour later is beyond us. But we can forgive them. They obviously didn't know how popular they are in Seattle or they wouldn't have booked such a shitty venue. They wouldn't have had to schedule a second show to take care of all the fans left behind by the quickly sold-out show.
So maybe the little rock club that should have stayed closed had nothing to do with when the band actually got down to business, but that doesn't get them off the hook. It's still another experience we'll associate with the place. It's still another wasted evening dealing with the asshole door staff, piss-poor sight-lines and a venue better suited for for coked-up glowstick wielding ravers.
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And this is different from which clubs? Early shows run late. Late shows start late. That's pretty much how it goes. Not unique to Neumos. Seems like cursing one club for setting their clocks 15 minutes ahead so they can make last call at 1:45. I'm curious which Seattle clubs you exclaim "Yessss!!!!" when you see they've booked a show you want to attend.
To be fair, the fact that the late show was going to be later than originally scheduled was known well in advance. My tickets (which I bought early) did say 8:00, but I got an e-mail on 3/30 from TicketsWest saying the door time had been moved to 9:30. Neumos could have made this clearer on their website for people who didn't order online, but they did link to the ticket sites, which had accurate information. And all of this is why I traded my late show tickets for early ones.
I don't go to indie shows anymore because I figure I can just wait 20 years and see all these bands at Tulalip Casino.
I agree with Chad that these things happen everywhere. You probably can't blame Neumo's for the delinquacy of the artist. Three shows in one day? Expect delays.
That being said, I HATE Neumo's. Their staff is the surliest group of a-holes I have ever encountered. Their sightlines are awful. The sound ain't that great. Down with Neumo's (except for the frites....gotta love them frites)!
no, really jack. tell us how you really feel
I am the owner of Neumos and thought I would throw my two cents in. We apologize for not putting the right times on the website. It was listed everywhere else correctly except there. If you had any idea how much it takes to run a club the size of us, with just a couple of people handling those details, you might not be so pissed.
The bands dictate what time they're going on, how long they're going to play, and when they're going to get off. Simple as that.
The comment about our rude security...they're security. They're not supposed to be your best friends. Spend 5-10 years with people taking swings at you because you are too drunk and can't hold your liquor and see how well you respond. They're doing the job to keep everybody safe and I think they do a great job at that. That is all I ask for them.
As for us to being a shitty venue, that's your opinion. There's thousands of people that come through our door weekly that disagree.
I used to recommend Seattlest to people. I told them it was a cool blog. I love Donte. I will no longer support Seattlest in any way.
If you want to talk to me about your woes, email me at steven@neumos.com. I book the shows and own the place. Feel free to really let me know how you really feel.
Nice post, Steven. For those of us ambivalent toward Neumos, now I'm going to be sure not to go. Thanks!
Ghetto post Steven. Seems like the ownership has a lot to do with neumos being a crap venue. Take some responsibility for the a-holes you hire to work the joint. I go to an average of 2-3 shows a week...neumos is my least favorite. Rather than being defensive, perhaps you should attempt to resolve complaints. Visit the Croc some time. They’ll show you how employees can be friendly and do their job at the same time…go figure.
I defend my security guys because they do a great job. Anybody has an issue, they can bring it up to me. I sit down with people all of the time and go through situations that occurred. 99% of the time, my guys are in the right.
Sorry you think it's a crap venue. We put our heart and soul into making this place great. We think we have done a good job as do the bands that play here and the majority of the people that come to the venue.
You can't please everybody I guess even though we try.
Dear Jack,
Let's get back to the point here. Anyone who has the inclination to complain about set times of a show is an lAme-hole, simply put, and can suck it themselves. Go get a drink at one of the million great bars around Neumos, or a snack, or whatever, but if you're going to stand around and lick the sidewalk, why the eff do you think people will want to read about it? Must I state that it is YOUR OWN STUPID FAULT FOR NOT ASKING AT THE BOX OFFICE WHEN THINGS WERE HAPPENING, since all humans with brains know, things change, and that's what one does? They're called survival skills, my friend. I am so bored with your poopy 'tude and dreary blogging skills that I am going to stop typing now.
Love, Gloria
The reason thousands of people come to your venue every week is not out of love or loyalty for Neumos but because of the music that is booked there.
I can't comment as to whether you are ignoring the complaints of people who patronize your club, however, I think you'll find that ignoring such complaints will eventually result in people skipping shows at your club altogether.
Finally, there's no reason to attack Seattlest for having a bad time at your venue. I've had a bad time at every venue in the city. The right thing would have been to say "sorry about that, I hear what you're saying, I'll work on it", even if the problem are things that you are not personally responsible for.
The very first thing I did was apologize for screwing up the times. I am sorry about that. I didn't think it was a reason to warrant that kind of a lambasting.
We listen all day to people's complaints about our clubs and take them seriously and do everything we can to rectify the situation.
the biggest complaint I heard was about the times and that is how the post started. I reprimanded my assistant for not making that change on the website when it became two shows. Mistakes happen and I apologize for them.
I was a little surprised about the late start, but the set times were posted at the box office; so it wasn't too difficult to hang out elsewhere and return for the show. PB&J going on at 11:30 was a little late for a "school night", but they were finished with their encore by 1 am.
That said, it would be fantastic if venues posted set times online to save a trip. Maybe the artist schedules are just too hectic to have that done in advance?
Whatever Steve. In addition to my earlier complaints, I will also add that I found the acts you book to be very obscure. Until you decide to add some relevancy to your guest list (ie Blue Oyster Cult, Foreigner, Bad Company, etc), I, along with many others, with take our business elsewhere, specifically Muckleshoot Casino.
I was working on a Boston Reunion, it didn't happen. Next time...
We would love to post times ahead of time, but the artists change them all the time. There's nothing we can do about that. Wish we could. We try to make things go on schedule, but it's just the nature of the biz.
I wasn't going to reply to any of this, but feel a little compelled...
First, many of you are correct. These show-time problems do occur at other venues. That's my mistake for building a post around that specific complaint when there are so many other reasons to dislike Neumos.
Regarding this complaint, however, how hard is it to update a website? Not everyone gets their tickets through TicketsWest -- and Gloria, dear, the box office is where I picked up my tickets and where I found out about the delay.
Second, Steven is absolutely right -- my "shitty venue" comment is an opinion. Nothing more.
I have been to Neumos exactly one time. I had never gone to any shows there previously because of the bad reputation they had. However, I was compelled to see Yonder Mountain String Band in a smaller-than-usual venue on a weekend. We got to the venue on time and were surprised to see so many people waiting. We courteously went to the end of the queue to patiently wait to get inside. We proceeded to watch MANY people un-courteously cut in the already-slow-moving line. When we got to the door to get in (and being chided by the ridiculous "MARIJUANA IS A CRIME" sign), we were dismayed to learn that the band had already started and there were still a good 100-150 people behind us. At the rate the door was moving, they would be lucky to see any part of the first set. When we got in, we were dismayed to learn that the venue (which was sold-out) was uncomfortably overcrowded with terribly poor ventilation. Both bars were completely inaccessible due to the crowd and it was a generally unpleasant experience that left us wondering why they just didn't play at the Showbox or Moore like usual.
Never again, Neumos. I gave you a chance, but you matched and exceeded my expectations and I will never return.
It's never occurred to me to dislike Neumos, maybe because I remember how badly life sucked before it opened.
I am so bookmarking this Seattlest entry the next time Seattlest accuses Slog of posting a half-assed whiny entry.
This is straight up there with the Seattlest entry writer stating that he/she couldn't "figure out" where On The Boards was, because it was in Queen Anne, and obviously Queen Anne "sucked."
Yeah, I gotta say, I dig Neumos. I mean, shit happens...it's rock and roll. But I've seen some incredible shows there and it's my number 1/2 split favorite venue in town. Part of me prefers the Showbox, but depending on whether it's an all-ages show it can suck having to sit in the back (despite the fact there's not really a bad seat in the house).
But I've seen some of the best shows I've ever seen at Neumos--Art Brut (twice), Gogol Bordello (whose two-hour set was revenge enough on the tired security for anyone), Sebadoh, Stephen Malkmus, Kultur Shock...phenomenal stuff. Personally, not being a dick, I never have problems with security, and there's the one blonde security guard who's both extremely scary and really hot in this freaky s&m way...
Point is, I try to roll with the punches. I know shows start late so I show up late, or just head into the Bad Juju (when it's open) and drink myself into oblivion. I interviewed Eddie Argos of Art Brut in a depressingly inebriated state twice for precisely this reason.
For my money, I refuse to go to big shows anymore. Have you ever been to White River? Sasquatch? Where they parade you around you sheep and rip you off with $8 can's of Bud? Seriously, give a freaky pierced security guard, full bars you can't order at because the music's so loud, and a bunch of rain-damp smokers crowded outside the door, and I'll take that any day.
Hey, that was me! Here's to taking shots at anything that moves when you're pissed off about a bad experience! You know, in Version 1 of that post I advocated a city-wide boycott of Queen Anne, so I think of it as the neighborhood getting off lightly that I merely confirmed the fact that it sucks.
Queen Anne already know it sucked, Dan. It was just plain hurtful for you to go point it out.
This caveat has been in the New Yorker nightlife listings for as long as I can remember. Who knows, it may have been there forever. But it's never stopped being true. To wit:
"Musicians and night-club proprietors live complicated lives; it’s advisable to call ahead to confirm engagements."
Rock shows are rock shows. Even a sporadic rock fan like me knows that. If you go to Neumos, you might have a miserable time getting kicked by some overacting drunk mosher. And you might see an amazing show (Clap Hands Yeah, Art Brut) that you'll never forget. Often in the same night.
A sanitized rock experience is available to those who wish to get to bed on time, I'd recommend our local Indian nations.
I loved the final GBV show I saw at Neumos back in the day. I've seen some sucky bands there too, but the venue's not to blame for that obviously. If they could somehow expand the size of Bad JuJu to its old size from back when it was on 11th and make it look exactly the same and bring back the snake in the aquarium and the cheap pool table, that would be an improvement but thats impossible.
Why is it that the Showbox runs on time at least 90% of the time? I know that if there is a two band show there doors are at 8, first band is on at 9 and the headliner is around 10:15.
I do not see that consistency at Neumos. For people attending shows who are holding down full-time jobs it would be nice to know how things are gonna roll.
Secondly, sold-out shows at Neumos are bad. I reference the last time Ladytron played there. Anyone who was there knows what I am talking about. I have been to a few sold-out shows there since where once you get your spot you don't dare leave. Not to get another drink or go to the bathroom. Sold-out shows at the Showbox are a breeze in comparison.
As a general rule, it's really lame to comment on your own blog post, but I have to say "Thank you BR." Your above comment summarized my point a helluva lot better than I apparently did, since I'm now being likened to a soccer mom who needs her beauty sleep.
@BR:
To add to the on-time-ness at the Showbox, if you take a peek at the ticket counter, the bars, light board, sound board, coat check, anywhere Showbox employees may be at, you'll see the precise schedule for what time each band is playing. This includes the curfew time in terms of music and in terms of what time the band needs to be packed up. As a fan, it's hard to argue or complain when you see this information plastered on every flat surface in the place, especially if the show starts on time. The downside is the curfew is about 30mins too early.
Also, the security at the Showbox is no more friendly than pretty much anywhere else, BUT, they've been very accommodating on two occasions when I've had special circumstances. The most remarkable was the time when I couldn't miss a particular show, even though I was recovering from major abdominal surgery. They got me in before the doors opened, and made sure I had the pick of the best and most accessible seat in the whole venue.
I have a myriad of complaints about the Showbox too, but compared to Neumos, they're the best in town.
Saxtor -- the Showbox isn't unique in posting set times onsite. Neumo's, the Crocodile, Chop Suey, and most other venues post them night-of-show wherever you buy tickets.
(I can't imagine why Jack would think that it's lame to publicly respond to comments on his own blog post. Isn't that how the internet is supposed to work?)
The artist may be in control on the time that they go on for a scheduled show. The control for booking another show before the previously sold out show, selling tickets for that show, updating the people who have bought tickets for that show and acting like an adult and issuing a 'mea culpa', is that the responsibility of the artist as well? What it sounds like, and I was not at the show, is that you over extended yourself, Steven, and then went onto a blog to 'throw in your two cents'.
You had the opportunity to put it out there that your business failed in fully informing the paying customers that you were making changes and that you were working to make sure that it didn't happen in the future. You had the opportunity to learn from your mistakes but it seems your arrogance got the best of you.
Also, your comment, "The comment about our rude security...they're security. They're not supposed to be your best friends. " truly shows your management style. If they are burnt out to the point that they are rude to every customer regardless of action, then I guess it is time to find another line of work. You enabling their crappy attitudes/work ethic, assures that I won't step foot into your establishment.
For you "its Rock and Roll", get over it people out there, it stops being all about the music when you start charging $25 a ticket to see your band play. At that point, you start owing something to the people who make it possible for you to do your art.
more nights a week than not, I go to shows. And I have to say that Neumo's is more hit and miss than any other venue in town. They do pack the place unbearably for sold out shows and it's been poorly vented since show one. And I'd agree the audience there is consistently brutal, I spend the vast majority of shows there cursing the assholes around me...trying to inch in front of me in the front row.
On the other hand, they book great band after great band. Some of my favorite shows of all time have been at Neumo's. Arcade Fire - 2003, in the running for the best show of my life.
The one venue that consistently gets it spot on for me is The Crocodile. And the last show i saw at The Showbox (The Long Winters) was fucking epic and the sound was perfect.
Quite a little tempest here! I've had plenty of good experiences at Nemos and as Abbey said, they book all sorts of great bands. Though to be fair, it's bigger than Chop Suey, Crocodile, etc but smaller than Showbox, so seems like it has a bit of a monopoly on shows of a certain size.
Like others, my only real complaint is how crowded it is for a sold-out show. I'm guessing the max crowd size takes into account upstairs lounging spaces, which are nice, but everyone who's in that area goes to the see the headliner and, boom, it's impossible to move.
Seems like the bigger the venue, the more consistent the set times are. Makes sense, bigger bands often have (or are forced to) have their shit together and follow a schedule. Neumos is spotty, but bands starting an hour or two after I had hoped seems to happen even more at smaller spots like the Croc...
I do love this topic and predict it will not be the last time it comes up.
Here is an example of making a choice when it comes to seeing live music. I would like to see the Brakes at Chop Suey on Monday June 4. It is a FOUR band bill for a Monday night! What is the point? Three bands doesn't cut it but that fourth band will make all the difference?
So I will probably go to the Triple Door on Tuesday June 5 and see the two band bill of Midnight Movies/Raveonettes. First band on stage at 7:30 and headliner probably at 8:30.
I'm just saying, for a Sun-Wed night show it is nice to know what you are in for before you commit your cash. Maybe most people who go to shows in Seattle are younger and don't have to be up at the crack of dawn. I guess I am voting with my dollars in this situation.
Steven,
I highly suggest you take a crash course in public relations. It's going to help your bottom line. Your animosity towards people posting and commenting is only going to serve to further tarnish the reputation of your establishment. Transparency is key in the Seattlest world and I appreciate the time you've taken out of your busy schedule to write the people who care about this topic. However, "I'm sorry but F you, we are trying hard" is not going to cut it in this forum. "I'm sorry, we'll try harder next time" might be a bit better. Better luck next time.